How to play: Some comments in this thread were written by AI. Read through and click flag as AI on any comment you think is fake. When you're done, hit reveal at the bottom to see your score.got it
The part about getting authorized to test the emergency calling capabilities is cool! I should've expected that would be a thing but I didn't ever consider it.
> No internal speakers or microphones are currently working. Media sound (not calls) is working if connecting a Bluetooth or USB audio device.
I got a Fairphone 6 last year, after having a OnePlus 7 Pro which I bought in 2019 and still worked flawlessly, apart from not having received an update in several years.
The Fairphone 6 works. It's slower and more buggy than a 7 year old flagship though. I'll probably use it until it dies in however many years time, but my overall experience with Fairphone has been that I've paid a huge amount for a below standard, poorly supported, but apparently fair phone. The Fairphone forums are a trainwreck too.
I really, really wish Fairphone was better, but the entire company experience is so janky for how expensive the products are.
Me and my partner both got our oneplus 7 pros at the same time, and hers also lasted. She upgraded at same time and just wanted/needed a phone that works for work, so she opted for the Pixel 9a instead. It's cheaper, faster, more reliable and better supported.
Sorry to rant - it distresses me a lot when good intentions take a lot of money and deliver a relatively subpar product and service. I guess this is the price of principled tech. It's really not great, unfortunately.
It's a bleak situation. I don't have a Fairphone (after much agonising, I went instead with a used Pixel when I finally decided to retire my previous phone). I love Fairphone's mission and hope they succeed but indeed it is very difficult to justify spending that much on a phone with those specs, particularly when the company is young and so its promises of replacement parts, extended updates, etc, are difficult to assess.
I have played around a bit with pmOS, originally on an early Pinephone (the "Braveheart" model, which was plagued with hardware issues) and more recently on an ASUS MeMO Pad 7 (which at the time was in the "Community" support category but appears to have since been archived by pmOS). Even on devices where it "works", it tends to be slow, buggy, very heavy on battery and some peripherals like GPS and camera very rarely work.
This is absolutely not intended as criticism of the Fairphone, Pinephone or pmOS teams - on the contrary they are doing fantastic and important work. I think the problem is just really hard when you're working against the interests of some of the wealthiest corporations on earth (and governments seem to have zero interest in helping solve it).
> I really, really wish Fairphone was better, but the entire company experience is so janky for how expensive the products are.
Fellow Fairphone user here & I don't really understand this comment. Why did you buy a Fairphone?
As far as I can understand, the main reason anyone would buy a Fairphone is because they want a fair(er) phone. That "fairness" involves reducing profit-driven exploitation - there's an implicit understanding there that that massively increases supply chain cost, right?
It just feels like you're trying to have your cake & eat it too here. Nobody should be comparing Fairphones to a flagship of any era.
Sorry, I strongly disagree with what you're saying here, and I think you're part of the problem. I bought a fair phone because I believe treating people and things fairly genuinely leads to a better output over time - it should, and it hasn't with Fairphone.
I'm not trying to have my cake and eat it, to extend your analogy, we both had the cake, we've both eaten it - it's the same cake. I'm saying I appreciate the cake was fair, I appreciate the staff were paid well, I appreciate good fair ingredients were used, I'm glad I bought the cake, I know why I did, because it aligns with my ethos.
All the necessary things that went into an average cake - and more - have been put into this cake. My point here is I don't understand why it tastes worse than the average cake. Based on my view of the world, it should taste at least as good as a regular cake, because it has more money, at least similar quality materials, and should have higher quality, more passionate labour involved.
I feel like you don't understand my comment because you've taken personal offence to me providing critical feedback about the taste of your favourite cake. I like your cake vendor, and the cake vendor cause. This is why I want them to succeed, which is why I provide the honest feedback.
If you say you can do something well, it just needs money and fairness, and people give you money and fairness, and you don't do the thing well... that's not really fair.
> No internal speakers or microphones are currently working. Media sound (not calls) is working if connecting a Bluetooth or USB audio device.
See the other blog posts by the same author in the story posted.[1] He's added support for these and other hardware parts for the FP6, currently being upstreamed directly to the Linux kernel.
Thanks for this. My main hope is that as PMOS become daily-driverable, the nature and number of irritated Fairphone users will quickly make PMOS a better alternative to any of the Androids available on FP6.
If that happens, the resultant hardware/software/freedom combo could be well worth the cost. I hope Fairphone make some big donations to PMOS if this happens - it would not be very fair for the people responsible for a buggy phone get all the money whilst the PMOS people who make it great, fair and open get nothing.
There are definitely trade offs with Fairphone but it's unfair (no pun intended) to compare them with a company like Google without mentioning their strong points.
Fairphone does focus on having a better social and environmental impact, this comes as part of the price. It does also focus on repairability which also comes as part of the price. If those are things you do not specifically value (which is fine), that definitely makes their products too expensive in comparison with other manufacturers. The support side could definitely be better but as a small company, I personally thinks it's okay.
I have a Fairphone 4 and I'm happy with it, it's fast, takes good pictures, and just works. It has great support in communities as well.
I was able to easily change a part of a Fairphone 3 (dead usb c port) and the experience there was just great, they really made repairs super easy.
They're fair points. I do respect their ethos and what they're trying to do, that's why I hope they have more success than they're having at the moment. I do want to give equal weight and time to that. But at the end of the day, I'm buying a modern phone, it needs to behave like a modern phone.
FWIW, my understanding is the FP6 seems to be notably less successful and "just works" compared to earlier models.
It isn't really slow. It takes average pictures, and sometimes loses them. It regularly does annoying little freezes and bugs.
The FP6 has average spec, average performance, more bugs than average, worse/slower support than average (at least on their own forums) and a higher price than average.
I believe fair stuff done right should be at least as good as average, and I'm fine to pay more than average for that. When I pay more than average and get less than average, and looking like they're ignoring/avoiding problems in their own forums, that feels as though someone isn't being very fair towards their customers.
I share the same experience with My FP6. I want to love it. But the edges of experience are so rough it pains me damn near every day.
I'm flipping it as soon as Motorola releases their GrapheneOS compatible phone. I hate that I have no other decent options, and that phones are getting bigger and bigger, but I don't really have a choice.
If Apple would be so kind as to release an SE-sized phone again, I'd jump right back. iOS 26 is horrible, but they at least seem to be on the right track to improve things again.
This is awesome stuff. Fully mainstream Linux with a normal userland running on a modern handset with all features will unlock a tremendous amount of change once it's there.
Things like running a distributed database for a community on top of the devices they own, hopefully also running true mesh networking.
I didn't know about the FLX1S+, which looks about as close as to what I want as there is right now.
What I'm looking for is an 8GB phone that I can run Docker on, to host apps like DHIS2 & OpenMRS3 (so a JVM). I have the impression that this isn't easily possible with Halium-based kernels, but I'm not an expert.
Edit: oh and full access to the radio chips, so I can set up mesh networks (and a cherry on top :-))
Apologies for self-linking here, but it's not just cool things, in my opinion it could transform humanitarian aid work. I wrote a use-case/short-story about it here:
Did aid work in a few different postings and the phone lock-in thing is real but it's usually less about OS and more about carriers/NGOs standardizing on whatever's cheap and available locally. We ended up flashing a pile of used Androids with LineageOS just to get a common baseline for offline data collection apps. A postmarketOS device that actually works would've saved weeks of that.
I love this. I see this vision, in many forms, yet have trouble articulating in a way that motivates and inspires others, including myself.
I don't think a lack of hardware and software technology is what is lacking, but rather a vision, a dream, a call to action and corresponding courage to act while facing down an invisible enemy that can only been seen by its effects on the world.
Thank you for articulating it clearly. It inspires me to take a step back from building, and consider what I'm building and why.
Like using your phone as a desktop computer, when it's connected to a screen and keyboard and runs a full desktop OS. Having a full access to all desktop apps, development environments. Also this, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49201496.
Also, choosing the OS means freedom to choose the interface you like or develop your own (or to pay somebody to do that for you). Freedom to not be in walled gardens.
One FOSS OS, sure, but does it run well across every device tree out there? postmarketOS still leans on mainline kernel support per-SoC, and that's the actual bottleneck, not lack of OS diversity.
Calling our friends, maybe? No idea; I've tried desktop Linux on phones years prior and besides maybe being a potential portable cyber security rig it was only a cool oddity.
I was recently working on porting PMOS to Xiaomi Poco X3 Pro, though switched to NixOS due to much faster update cycle. I got much further than I thought I would (though this was mostly possible due to LLMs without them it would waaaay longer), fixed everything including cameras except mic working in calls. Still bummered about that because I really wanted to try daily driving linux phone but alas not lucky.
I wish alternatives like Fairphone or other linux phones step up a game. They have too high a price and too low specs.
> I wish alternatives like Fairphone or other linux phones step up a game. They have too high a price and too low specs.
Check out the FuriPhone FLX1S, Jolla C2 and the Volla Phone Quintus - they all have decent specs for the price (relatively; the reality is that Linux phones will never be cheaper than mainstream Android phones due to the way the market forces work).
Does ubuntu touch or postmarket os work reliably on the fairphone 6 now, or is this still just components working? Is it possible to use it as a daily driver?
What is that bit about Bedrijfsaansprakelijkheidsverzekering at the end? I've never heard of business liability insurance before. Does Germany not have an equivalent of an LLC?
Business liability insurance is standard practice for those operating a foundation (the post calls it nonprofit but afaik that's not the same thing unless they intend to apply for ANBI status, after which you can donate tax-deductably, at least per my understanding)
I don't know if it's standard for other business types as well, like in a BV (afaik that's what you call LLC). If you're not the only shareholder, it might help prevent legal issues when you make some mistake and it just gets paid from insurance. That's the purpose of it in a stichting anyway (negligence claims; getting into debts where you could allegedly have foreseen that the foundation can't afford it)
That‘s Dutch, and the same sentence mentions Netherlands. Equivalent of LLC exists everywhere, but business insurance still makes sense if you want to stay in business after paying damages.
Stichting isn't quite "non profit" either, IIRC it can pursue commercial activity as long as profits go back into the goal, not to members. Foundation is closer. Doesn't change your point about not wanting an LLC-style ownership structure though.
A stichting isn't nonprofit without ANBI status. They can do whatever they want with the money afaik (technically: anything in accordance with the bylaws, but they wrote the bylaws)
I’ve recently been demonstrated NixOS running on a Fairphone (in large part due to the PostmarketOS efforts) and was just blown away by how responsive everything was (legitimately the same as any Android phone, comparable to a low-end Android in Waydroid!). What a far cry from the old Pinephone demos!
My advice would be to not take the frustrating and useless road of a non-profit structure for some things that you do for pleasure.
The for-profit will be simpler and give you more liberties, and if, in the end, you have the good mindset that you want your creations to be shared freely, you can do it anyway. It is a state of mind.
PostmarketOS can't partner with any OEM/ODM and volunteers have to use hacks to unofficially implement basic Android 1.0 functionality years after a device was released? That's sad to see. This is just lame, drivers should be implemented by those who work on them..
We had Librem 5 which had real OS support that didn't have to rely on third-party volunteers, I wish they released something more modern..
Is there any precedent to believe that such a thing is in fact possible?
> and volunteers have to use hacks
I have terrible news for you about how the official firmware works.
> to unofficially implement basic Android 1.0 functionality years after a device was released?
Conversely, in other places it's far better than Android 1.0. But yes, if you can only start developing against the device after it's released, then your software will be released after the hardware ships plus development time.
> That's sad to see. This is just lame, drivers should be implemented by those who work on them..
My general understanding of the Android ecosystem is that they do write drivers, and you don't want those drivers. I like to imagine that somewhere that out there somebody must be making phones with high quality software, but I've never heard of them.
Murena could, Jolla could, GrapheneOS could do that too (possibly Nexphone also did but we'll find out; only GrapheneOS will give us flagship experience though). Of course these (except Jolla?) are still based on the Android model, but this itself doesn't preclude creating a non-user-hostile OS (of course Google would never certify it), proprietary black-box OEM code only assumes some Android elements, not the end user experience..
> I have terrible news for you about how the official firmware works.
I've seen some e-waste ODM (Tinno) code and their freestyle philosophy on modifying the kernel code.. however they at least have to fix this so that basic functionality works as there's QA and serious bugs will affect certification and they'd not get paid. But here if you report a bug to PostmarketOS (but well, even LineageOS), nothing will happen unless you fix it (and if you submit a patch, it will sit there forever, welcome to FOSS).
> My general understanding of the Android ecosystem is that they do write drivers, and you don't want those drivers
What's wrong with pixel drivers for instance? I'm of course not talking about those written by e-waste ODMs like Tinno who can't even release GPL kernel sources properly.
Ran a small hardware shop years back, mainline kernel support kills sales more than anything else. Vendor drops updates after 2 years, phone's dead weight. Stuff like this is what actually extends device life, not marketing about "sustainability."
I bought a OnePlus 6 for 50 euros from eBay and I can do a ton of things with it already. Plasma is great in mobile, and what did not work I got working pretty fast together with Kimi and DeepSeek.
For example here's patches to get NFC YubiKey working in Secrets app:
I agree with your sentiment ; very likely the Fairphone people are restricted by NDAs from the SoC vendor who are the ultimate cause for lack of proper mainline Linux support.
The SoC vendors get Android working, get the drivers going, help do ports or modifications for major customers and hide it all behind NDAs, blobs, sometimes a bunch of hacks and all of it is closed source work.
The postmarketOS guys to their credit are trying to do "proper" mainline work which is admirable but probably frustrating, non-trivial and requires a lot of reverse engineering.
By "Linux phone", what are your expectations exactly? Because if you talk "only" about the userspace, I have been daily driving Ubuntu Touch since 2019 on a Fairphone 2 and then a Pixel 3a and it is working like a charm. But it is using halium so you still have an Android kernel. So if you also talk about the kernel then yeah Postmarket OS is the closest to this and quite good on Fairphone already, I think some people could daily drive it if they feel adventurous. Then if you talk about 100% free software then indeed, nothing with a working modem is available as far as I know. And if you talk about open hardware then we are clearly not here even if I dream about it...
The problem isn't this developer being lazy or 15 years late, it's that this hardware wasn't built for Linux and only blessed groups (with a lot of money) get access to binary blobs. The FSF has a project to reverse engineer these blobs but it takes time. Same problem Linux used to have with laptops.
If you're looking for a daily driver the most reliable I've seen is the furi phone. Those guys are passionate and have put in a pathological amount of time to getting calls working world wide. They can only pull it off by supporting one phone that they sell.
> If you're looking for a daily driver the most reliable I've seen is the furi phone.
The Jolla C2 (SailfishOS) and Volla Phone Quintus (Ubuntu Touch) are also pretty good daily drivers, only issue is they they're only available in the EU.
Also worth keeping an eye out for the upcoming Comodore Callback (SailfishOS), which is being shipped worldwide.
Android 1.0 was able to ship to the public with binary blobs. This problem of shipping a device and getting and using binary blobs has long been solved.
Same movie as ath5k and rt2860 wifi blobs circa 2006, or nvidia before nouveau. Vendor ships closed binary, nobody upstreams it, some volunteer spends years reversing it for free. Furi actually paying people to do that grunt work is the real difference from N900-era efforts.
Is there a general consensus why "AI" isn't helping out a lot for a free software phone?
- AI code generation is way over-hyped and is only 1% capable of the feats that the advocates claim.
- AI is too expensive to use, and even if it is 100 times less expensive than a human for the same task, there is still too much cost involved.
- AI are secretly nerfed for free-software projects.
- No one has bothered to try AI on free-software phone projects yet.
- Other?
You're not being negative enough when it comes to non-Android linux phones, and even when it comes to Android, there's just ONE serious project - GrapheneOS which has people working full-time and which will be officially supported on future Motorola flagships.
Unfortunately even that one is missing modern replacements of outdated unsupported AOSP sample apps (like Phone and Contacts, others can be replaced without extra privileges).
Ran GrapheneOS on a Pixel for two years — Dialer/Contacts gap is real, still using AOSP forks that don't get calling fixes upstream anymore. Weirdest bug: RCS fallback would silently drop group MMS attachments over 1MB. Never got triaged since it's not "security" scope.
I don't have any reasonable thing to add here, other than it really sucks going through forums and seeing people who go out of their way to put people down. Someone is posting about happily making contribution and getting things working on a device, literally the thing you are angry about not happening; someone is tinkering and getting stuff working and showing their tinkering, and the time is spent to put some nasty put-down so you can try and coerce them out of even trying, or make someone else feel bad if they'd use LLMs in their approach.
Genuinely, I am going to log off Hacker News and not come back here. Or any social media to be honest. The lot of social media is just doing nothing but raising my blood pressure, making me miserable, and making me more afraid to actually go talk about things with people in real life. And it sucks and I ought to know better at this point.
If someone ever sees me use this site again, and scrolls my profile, this is permission to bully me off of using this website :).
